I promised I would share all the good information I learned at my Master Gardener classes, and today I learned a whole bunch of great stuff. The class was an introduction to horticulture and was taught by a professor from a nearby college. The first tidbit I want to pass along is the answer to a common question I find in my email inbox.
The question gets asked all sorts of different ways, but here’s the gist of a it:
Hi Fern! I just bought the most delicious apple at my local farmers market. It was so tasty that I saved the seeds and I really want to grow my own apple tree, so that I can eat these tasty apples all the time. I Google searched and found your article about growing apples in containers, but I noticed you didn’t have any info on how to grow them from seed. What should I do? Any assistance would be great! Thanks in advance!
I already knew that growing fruit trees from seed was usually futile, but I didn’t know more than “most modern fruit trees need to grow on different rootstock to be healthy.” But now I know there’s more to it than just needing to borrow another tree’s roots. By the way, there is a lot of bogus info on the internet on this topic.
You should resist that bad advice, here’s why:
First–and quite frankly, foremost–fruit trees reproduce sexually. Yep, you read that right. They reproduce pretty much the same way we do. Well, not exactly the same, but they do have sperm (pollen) and an egg that is fertilized by that sperm. And just as human offspring resemble their parents, but are not exactly the same (thanks to DNA contributed by each parent), so to are the fruit trees that grow from seeds.
When you buy an apple tree marked ‘Gala’ at the nursery, or a ‘Bartlett’ pear, they are actually clones of the one and only original ‘Gala’ or ‘Bartlett.’ To explain things simply, the person who bred the original plant realized it was a great tree, took cuttings, and then grafted them onto a different tree’s roots to make more of their great discovery. The breeder then sold those grafted saplings to nurserymen who then sold it directly to you (or to a garden center who then sold it to you).
Second, even though there are some types of fruit trees that will consistently produce similar offspring though, such as oranges, most fruit trees grown from seed would take over a decade to mature to the point where they can produce fruit. Oranges can take up to 15 years to become fruit-bearing trees. Who wants to wait that long? Even nurseries don’t wait that long. When you take a cutting from a mature tree and graft it onto rootstock, it is ready to bear fruit in a few years, not 15! Trees at the nursery are usually a year or two old. You’ll probably begin seeing fruit on it within a season or two after planting.
Third, and finally, my original point about rootstock. Plant breeders don’t breed for healthy roots, because they know that they’ll be grafting their creation onto a different rootstock. To go back to the example of oranges, they are almost always grafted onto sour orange root stock, which is much more disease resistant. Grafting also allows breeders to mix and match trees to rootstocks to create attributes they want, like dwarfism, disease resistance, cold/heat hardiness, etc.
If you were somehow lucky enough to sprout from seed a tree extremely similar to the parent you tasted, and you were willing to wait 15 years for the plant to mature, you still wouldn’t be able to overcome the fact that the roots that produced the fruit you tasted are not the roots your seedling will have.
So please, by all means grow apples in a pot on your balcony. I know from personal experience that oranges and peaches can also do really well in containers. But buy your tree from the nursery, don’t waste your time and energy on saving and growing fruit seeds.
Photo Credit: Muffit
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{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
Good points! Also on the sexual reproduction thing: Some varieties of apples don’t produce much pollen, so a lot of orchards have crab apples planted just to help pollinated the good apples for a better fruit set — meaning the seeds in your grocery store apple are probably a hybrid between a good tasting apple and some random, not good tasting crab apple — meaning: Almost certainly not yummy.
Thanks for the great info, I’ve been thinking about doing some fruit trees at my house, now I know to just go with the saplings from the nursery rather than try the seeds (which is what I was thinking)!
Great post. I shall be coming back every time you go to class to profit from the info. Wish we had them here …
Thanks for the good information, Fern! When we were kids, we used to start apple seeds in damp paper towels, more for the magic of starting seeds than ever hoping to actually end up with a tree. (They are incredibly easy to start.)
Fern:
Thanks for the great blog… I was thinking of getting a fruit tree to grow in a container in my loft. So, it would be inside but I have a ton of light. Can you suggest some fruit trees that might work and maybe a nursery where I can buy a nice healthy one?
Thanks.
Lisa
Lisa–I know you’re in Long Beach, so check out Armstrong’s on 10th and Termino or H&H on Lakewood, just North of Artesia Blvd. As to growing fruit trees year round inside, that’s not a viable option. Indoor light is never as strong as outdoor light, no matter how sunny your apartment is. And fruit trees are pollinated by bees, without pollination, there’s no fruit. If you have your heart set on an indoor tree, check out the plants on this list.
Hi Fern, Great Post….Again, Here in NY state there are lots of apple orchards even out in the rural areas there are stands of apples that we call pasture apples (old orchards that were converted over to pasture in the last century) most of them were produced from seed but are lousy apples because of the “crab” they are far more prolific and hardy than most of your “eating” and “cooking” apples.
If you have kids it is a cool project to have them plant some fruit trees that are indigenous to your area then when they are 20 or so they can enjoy the fruit.
Thanks again for the good info!
Regards,
Rich @ NY Homesteader
Hey Fern,
Great post! I would like to add a little to the subject and I hope you correct me if I’m wrong.
!) Most trees bought at nurseries are grown on dwarf or semi-dwarf rootstock but the fruit bearing grafts are usually from full sized, standard trees. So you’d end up with a very large tree if you grow from a seed. Not good for containers.
2) Rootstocks are not the same for different areas of the country. So you need to make sure that the variety of fruit as well as the rootstock are right for your part of the country (or world for that matter). Just because someone will sell you a fruit tree doesn’t mean it’s the proper combination of cultivar (graft) and rootstock for your region. I think there are very few varieties of apple trees suitable for southern California
Scott–I don’t know if most nursery trees are on dwarf or semi-dwarf rootstock, but you’re probably right. Most homeowners would want a tree that they can reach and that won’t overpower their home (or small lot). But it is true, as far as I know, that most/all trees are full-sized trees.
As far as different rootstocks for different regions, that’s true, but unless you’re buying the tree through a mailorder place, there isn’t really any danger of buying a tree that is poorly suited for your area, because nurseries only buy trees meant for their area. There are probably half a dozen varieties of apples that will fruit in So Cal (coastal regions, there is no problem growing apples in the foothills, as Oak Glen proves). We don’t get enough “chill hours” here for most apples.
Rich–I think most kids would lose interest if they had to wait 20 years to see the fruits of their labor!
H&H Nursery is far more superior than Armstrong on 10th & Termino. Just my opinion though!
I’ve grafted before and whole process is interesting; compatibility between rootstock and cutting is very important. I don’t bother sprouting fruit tree seeds. Horticulture is awesome!
AWESOME post Fern! As tempting as it may seem to plop a seed in the ground, there’s so much more to understanding what makes fruit trees bear viable fruit.
Thanks so much for sharing all that you learned in the Master Garden class! We’re all benefitting from it— big time!
This reminds me of Botany of Desire that you recommended everyone watch a few months ago! I did, and they went over the very same issue about apple trees and apple seeds.
Great post! My mom has been trying to grow fruit trees from seed for years, & I can attest to the process being both slow and sometimes unrewarding. Surprisingly, though, there have been some successes! An apricot tree she grew from a seed that came from one of my late grandfather’s tree is productive & delicious, growing in poor soil on its own rootstock. Now I have a seedling of her tree growing in my own yard. If it turns out to be a total dud, I’ll just graft on it, but I like the idea of the genetic line of apricot changing with each generation, so I hope that I luck out!
also, regarding chill hours & apples, this is an interesting thread happening over at dave wilson:
http://davewilsonforums.com/index.php/showthread.php?p=56
Another comment about Pollenation affecting offspring…
With Apples especially — Crab apples are frequently used as Pollinators in Orchards — because they are so good at it…. and because the Seed and fruit companies don’t want you edging in on their business….
Unfortunately, those crab apple pollinators shine through loud and clear when you grow out the Supermarket seeds… and you get a GIANT tree bearing little round bitter rocks….
Same for Cherries — where they may use Wild cherries or some sort of Bird cherry or a sour cherry as a pollinator… and you get bitter, astringent, teeny tiny cherries… Or big, watery, bland cherries….
You may have better luck if you hand-pollinated fruit from your own yard, then tagged the specific fruit for growing out… Then, at least you would know the parentage!
Thanks
That’s my long term plan. I’m going to hand polinate my bountiful apple tree and my tree grown from seed (one day in the future for my seed grown tree) then use those seeds I get to grow 2 more trees. Who knows, might get a lovely new variety. I’ll name it after my daughter Savannah who loves the idea of growing a tree.
Hello
I am growing a tree from seed at the moment but I also have a grafted Bountiful (sweet cooking variety) apple tree growing on a M27 rootstock growing in a container on my balcony. Which I’m happy to say will be fruiting in its first year of planting. There is also an apple tree that I believe was grown from seed on the field downstairs that produces lovely sweet apples. I was just wondering, if my tree that i’m growing from seed was pollinated by my grafted tree and/or the tree downstairs on the field, would that increase the chances of me getting tastier apples grown from seed? I personally think its well worth the wait. If im not successful then so be it, i’ve still got my bountiful apples.
Fallon–Just like breeding animals or even making human babies, plants will have some of the characteristics of their parents. So, yes, if the seed you are growing comes from a flower that was pollinated by an apple with tasty fruit, it is more likely to be good tasting.
I have a wonderful Mango tree that has been producing fruit for 4 yrs. I have many seedlings that have sprung up and I was potting them, until a friend tried to explain grafting and fruit tree reproduction that left me confused. He told me they would never produce fruit. Thanks, to your article I now have a better understanding. I plan on stopping my little growing project and just enjoy the fruit. Thanks, Maureen K Foster of Melbourne Florida
Your advice is very valuable. Thanks!
What a horrible article to discourage people from planting trees. Why not say you can grow them from seeds for the enjoyment of watching a tree grow & the simple Beauty of having a tree but do not expect fruit. My 5 yr old has been planting his apple seeds all winter long & one sprouted! He is so excited watching it grow every day! I was looking on how to care for this baby plant. Like what type of soil & where to plant.
I’m not discouraging people from planting trees, I’m discouraging them from planting fruit trees from seed. If you don’t agree with my reasons, then ignore me.
Thanks for the information.
Several years ago (about 6-8), I harvested a lot of Rainier cherry pits, and after letting them dry for no particular length of time, I started them (about 10-15 or so) in potting soil. Taking no particular care with these, I have re-potted them several times, and within the last few years, of the four that remain in my possession or are available for inspection, two have flowered and produced fruit (one is kind of bonsai-ish). The two that have been planted in the ground have literally taken off and show great fruiting potential (one of which was a prolific producer of sweet and healthy fruit last year). The other fruit producer is still in the pot into which I last transplanted it, due to a recent move.
I agree that the fruit may not be true to its parent, but it is delicious, nonetheless, and I would not give up these remaining plants for a nursery-bought variety. It would almost be like giving up a child at this point.
Encouraged by these results, I have started a lot of Braeburn and Honeycrisp apple seeds (30-50). I’ll let you know how that turns out in 6-8 years.
I’ll try my hand at grafting and other more sophisticated techniques later as time allows. But I would not discourage the planting of seeds from store-bought fruit solely on the basis that the tree may not bear fruit true its parent. If all you want is fruit of a guaranteed variety, by all means, buy a nursery tree. But it’s also fun and cheap to experiment with grocery produce seeds.
BTW: We do already have 2 cherry and 2 apple producing trees on the property, not counting the above.
Hi Fern,
I am also a little disappointed at your article because it speaks of a larger scope of things that I really think we should all be more aware of, and that is that fruit trees were meant to reproduce in a certain way, and we should encourage them to do that. Messing with the dynamics there and encourage only a few strains of fruit tree to be proficient in number, and to spread their seed all over the show might land up causing havoc with the ecology in some way that we cannot figure out yet.
I’d actually really love to taste a different kind of apple to the ones we have on the shelves and I am sad that they keep reproduce the same one over and over again instead of allowing fruit trees to keep giving us a nice surprise.
I disagree. The oiginal Gala came from a seed. So why not try for another even better variety by planting seed?
Good luck with that, Mike. Most balcony gardeners aren’t interested in working for decades to grow a tree whose fruit actually tastes good.
Good article. I planted several seeds from different apples in a pot and got several shoots. I later planted the cluster of apple trees in the ground but found new shoots coming up from where the pot used to be. My apple tree(s) are now full and about 7′ tall but I have yet to see a bloom. The plant has been in the ground now for about 5 years so I will probably never know what the fruit will eventually be like. The tree looks nice on the side of my long driveway but I am wishing I had planted a tree from a nursery.
Fern-
Like do I plant just the seed, what do I do to it, or do I plant the whole nectarine?
Hi there! As silly (or pointless) as it turn out to be, could you give me a little advice on how to grow a nectarine tree from seed where I live? (Pennslyvannia) Even if it doesn’t bear friut, I’d love to just watch it grow
I’m not too skilled with plants… And I really don’t want to kill it. (ironicaly, I have a green thumb)
Thanks so much!
-Rachel
Nope. Sorry. I’ve never done it and there isn’t much in my gardening books about it for all the reasons I mentioned in this post. Sorry!
We will be doing a combination of cuttings and growing from seed I think. I understand it seems a little pointless to wait longer than you have to for fruit. But I disagree especially with your comment that you think kids would loose interest in a tree that takes 20 years or so to produce fruit. We’re learning much about seed dormancy and their protective coatings, food, and baby plants. Nothing beats a good science and nature lesson. Not only that. We live in a sad time when kids expect to get exactly what they want, when they want. Call it the fast food generation or whatever. The complication is that they have no patience and have this awful idea that they are the center of the universe. It’s about perspective which we all tend to lack. Even if I die tomorrow, someone will likely be here in 20 years to enjoy the trees that I cared for. Also, kids these days tend to think apples and whatever other food they want, season disregarded, comes from grocery stores. The circle of life is explained with illustrations in a classroom. So much patience, trust, and wisdom can be learned by planting seeds and watching something come of them. My idea is that about the time our cutting trees are done producing, the ones we started from seed will be in their prime. If not, ya know what, these kids (and likely me too) need to learn how to deal with disappointment. Whatever happened to Johnny Appleseed? We won’t be pitching our seeds, thanks!
you sound very bitter, have you forgotten the joy of planting things and watching them grow?okay, they take longer but isn´t it worth it or are you into the McEasy society where everything has to be now and there´s no waiting around….tss tss
I have been dumping apple seeds and cores along the farm hedgerow for a few years. I didn’t make a note of when I started doing this – but 5 years is a good guess. This years a bank of little trees had a glorious show of white blossoms, right through a devastating frost for the rest of the orchard. This summer most of my orchard is barren, but each little hedgerow seedling tree is covered in crabs. Yellow ones, red ones, green ones – no too are the same, but they are all crabs. The seeds came from Cox Orange Pippin, Tumanga, and Melrose. What I forgot about is my neighbor’s old, very large crabapple.
Your advice is correct – but totally misses the needs of most of the World’s population that can’t AFFORD to pay a nursery $25 to $50 each for fruit and nut trees. For those who are not arrogantly rich – go ahead and plant as many FREE seeds as you can get your hands on. Plant in the fall or stratify in a refrigerator for spring planting. Since the trees cost you nothing, you can plant lots of them and see what you get. If the choice is between no tree, or a free tree – that is a no-brainer. Some types of tree need two varieties (or a male and female tree) to produce fruits or nuts. All the info you need can be found on-line.
For most ‘stone’ fruits (peach, plum, nectarine, apricot) let the pits dry for a few days, crack with a nut cracker,then put the inner seeds in damp peat moss or damp paper in a sealed container in your refrigerator for one to three months. Plant them when they shows signs of sprouting a root.
We’ve thrown all kinds of fruit off of our deck over the years and we have around 6 trees that have caught. Our golden delicious produces like crazy after 4 years. We’re dehydrating them right now. Also our cherry trees have 3 or 4 stared by seed and they produce really well also. If the one tree was planter closer to our deck we would of been able to reach the top of the tree from the second deck but now we get to watch the birds enjoy them.
No harm no foul when trying to grow trees from seeds. We’ve also planted some bare root ball nursery stocks that haven’t survived where the seeds you have less worries if they don’t produce or survive. If your not happy with these trees they make a great firewood.
Im am growing as many apple seeds as I can to fill up my land.
Crab apple types are fine they can still be used.I like seeing diffrent things grow and see how they turn out.
If you have the time and space grow them,if anything you have some trees to help feed wildlife.
Plus even crab apple wood is great for smoking meat.
Fern thanks for the information . I have learned alot in the last few minutes. got lemon, a peach and an orange tree from seed, now i know that probably i’ll never see any fruits but is very rewarding to see this trees grow.
Hi Fern thanks for the good advice my girlfriend has an orange and several grapefruit trees her hubby planted and they give super delicious fruit only her husband has passed and i cant ask him about them any way i was going to plant the seeds but now that i read your column im going to wait till next spring and go to the nursery instead thanks for all your help and have a wonderful day. Josie fron San Antonio Texas amen
You stupid.Your is extremely idiotic.So many people have tried and suceeded but what hope do give novice gardeners.I’m not sorry to say that you are a disgrace
Well, I grew an apple tree from seed 4 years ago and last year i had 14 apples on it. Im hoping it will bare more fruit this year, as my aunty from lollypop farm is coming to stay.